Rear left wheel camber

[PaigeZ3]

Hi all again, I need some help again with my 1999 2.0L Z3. I had a wheel alignment last week and the guy said the left rear was out by a lot. He thought that maybe the trailing arm was bend. Had it checked by the mechanic and he said the same. Someone else had a look at it and maybe thought it were the trailing arm bushings or my spring? Anybody any idea? I can make a photo of it. That side is also a bit higher then the right side. Paige

 

[Nodzed]

The left side (as viewed from the rear) on unmodified Z3s always sits a bit higher, allegedly to compensate for just a driver being in the car on US/EU left hand drives and was never changed for the RHD models?? this reason could be an urban myth though.

Trailing arm bushes are one that doesn't normally deteriorate on the Z3 but it's not unheard of, snapped spring could cause it but I'm guessing the mechanic would have spotted that, and as said damaged trailing arm. If the car has been lowered this can cause an extreme camber issue on the rear that could be accentuated by other problems.

 

[PaigeZ3]

Thank you Nodzed for your reply, however the car is not lowered. We measured the wheel arches from the ground and the left rear was higher by a lot. I will make some pics tomorrow.

 

[t-tony]

A broken rear spring will not affect the camber at all only the ride height. Biggest likely reason is a bent suspension arm. How was the rear camber measurement? If the camber was way out the toe in would also be out. Did you receive a print out of the results?

Tony.

 

[PaigeZ3]

Sorry it's the toe that is out, silly me. Left -16.5 right 1.0 total -15.5. Camber -1degree48'for left, -1 degree 26'for right. Hope that helps.

 

[PaigeZ3]

A broken rear spring will not affect the camber at all only the ride height. Biggest likely reason is a bent suspension arm. How was the rear camber measurement? If the camber was way out the toe in would also be out. Did you receive a print out of the results?

Tony.

Sorry it's the toe that is out, silly me. Left -16.5 right 1.0 total -15.5. Camber -1degree48'for left, -1 degree 26'for right. Hope that helps.

 

[t-tony]

Can you post a picture of the print out, then it's possible to compare side to side.

Tony.

 

[PaigeZ3]

Can you post a picture of the print out, then it's possible to compare side to side.

Tony.

Hi Tony, hereby the report.
Paige

 

[Eddie Zedder]

Mine sits slightly high on the left. It was improved by changing shocks and springs but is still 15mm out. I have since come to the conclusion that it is the right side that is sitting low and that the beam bush on that side is the likely culprit.

 

[PaigeZ3]

Mine sits slightly high on the left. It was improved by changing shocks and springs but is still 15mm out. I have since come to the conclusion that it is the right side that is sitting low and that the beam bush on that side is the likely culprit.

Thanks Eddie, I will ask my dad to have a look at that, but then my left wheel is still out by heaps. You can see it when you stand behind the car ......

 

[Eddie Zedder]

May also be worth checking spring length, although they will need taking off the car.

This may be useful.

 

[NZ00Z3]

Hi Paige

Thank you for posting the wheel alignment sheet. It's very helpful.

Yes you have a left rear toe problem.

Is it the trailing arm bushings?
The usual shade tree mechanic test for faulty Z3 trailing arm bushings is to go for a drive down a deserted street. 50 kph/30 mph is fine. Hold the steering wheel with the tips of your fingers and jam/push hard on the brakes. Note if the steering wheel wants to pull to the left or the right. Then floor the accelerator and see if the steering wheel pulls in the opposite direction. The pull on the steering wheel is caused by the slop in the worn trailing arm bushings creating a rear wheel steering effect. The assumption is that the rest of the wheel alignment is in spec and not causing the steering wheel pull.

The other test is to have someone watch the wheel as you slowly drive forward, then back to see if the toe visually changed due to the slop in the trailing arm bushings.

Men typically like the first test

Is it a bent Trailing Arm?
If its not a faulty trailing arm bushing, then its a bend trailing arm.

You can redo the first shade tree mechanic test. The steering wheel should pull in the same direction for both braking and acceleration. The rear wheel steering does not change as the trailing arm is bent.

Do you replace it?
- If its not causing a "pull the steering in one direction" problem and its not wearing the rear tyre badly (cupping), then you can probably live with it.
- If it is causing problems or you are worried about it, then change it.

Hope you get this sorted soon. Summer is here now and you want to be out there driving topless and having fun, not worrying about the Z3.

Murray

 

[PaigeZ3]

Hi Paige

Thank you for posting the wheel alignment sheet. It's very helpful.

Yes you have a left rear toe problem.

Is it the trailing arm bushings?
The usual shade tree mechanic test for faulty Z3 trailing arm bushings is to go for a drive down a deserted street. 50 kph/30 mph is fine. Hold the steering wheel with the tips of your fingers and jam/push hard on the brakes. Note if the steering wheel wants to pull to the left or the right. Then floor the accelerator and see if the steering wheel pulls in the opposite direction. The pull on the steering wheel is caused by the slop in the worn trailing arm bushings creating a rear wheel steering effect. The assumption is that the rest of the wheel alignment is in spec and not causing the steering wheel pull.

The other test is to have someone watch the wheel as you slowly drive forward, then back to see if the toe visually changed due to the slop in the trailing arm bushings.

Men typically like the first test

Is it a bent Trailing Arm?
If its not a faulty trailing arm bushing, then its a bend trailing arm.

You can redo the first shade tree mechanic test. The steering wheel should pull in the same direction for both braking and acceleration. The rear wheel steering does not change as the trailing arm is bent.

Do you replace it?
- If its not causing a "pull the steering in one direction" problem and its not wearing the rear tyre badly (cupping), then you can probably live with it.
- If it is causing problems or you are worried about it, then change it.

Hope you get this sorted soon. Summer is here now and you want to be out there driving topless and having fun, not worrying about the Z3.

Murray

Hi Murray, thank you again for this info. You were very informative with my diff too,which is going very well. My rear wheel is wearing really bad and you can physically see that it is crooked under the car I will ask if dad wants to come with me and do the tests. I like the first test too I will let you know how I go. Paige

 

[PaigeZ3]

May also be worth checking spring length, although they will need taking off the car.

This may be useful.
View attachment 164971
View attachment 164973
View attachment 164975

Hi Eddie, thank you for this fact sheet. I will definitely measure it up, but I can already see that that rear left wheel is different. I'm going to do Murray's tests first and see if it's not the trailing arm and/or bushings. Paige

 

[PaigeZ3]

Hi Paige

Thank you for posting the wheel alignment sheet. It's very helpful.

Yes you have a left rear toe problem.

Is it the trailing arm bushings?
The usual shade tree mechanic test for faulty Z3 trailing arm bushings is to go for a drive down a deserted street. 50 kph/30 mph is fine. Hold the steering wheel with the tips of your fingers and jam/push hard on the brakes. Note if the steering wheel wants to pull to the left or the right. Then floor the accelerator and see if the steering wheel pulls in the opposite direction. The pull on the steering wheel is caused by the slop in the worn trailing arm bushings creating a rear wheel steering effect. The assumption is that the rest of the wheel alignment is in spec and not causing the steering wheel pull.

The other test is to have someone watch the wheel as you slowly drive forward, then back to see if the toe visually changed due to the slop in the trailing arm bushings.

Men typically like the first test

Is it a bent Trailing Arm?
If its not a faulty trailing arm bushing, then its a bend trailing arm.

You can redo the first shade tree mechanic test. The steering wheel should pull in the same direction for both braking and acceleration. The rear wheel steering does not change as the trailing arm is bent.

Do you replace it?
- If its not causing a "pull the steering in one direction" problem and its not wearing the rear tyre badly (cupping), then you can probably live with it.
- If it is causing problems or you are worried about it, then change it.

Hope you get this sorted soon. Summer is here now and you want to be out there driving topless and having fun, not worrying about the Z3.

Murray

Hi Murray,
We just did the test, but the car is pulling left, right and center. So we braked and accelerated a couple of times. It pulled to the left, it pulled to the right and it didn't pull at all when braking. When accelerating I didn't feel a pull at all, but the roads around here are pretty bumpy. Also dad found out that the rear left wheel is not straight on the car, but in an angle outwards and with the toe degree on top of that.
So, maybe it's both? The trailing arm and the bushings? I'm afraid to drive it now........ I don't want to loose my wheel.
Regards Paige

 

[NZ00Z3]

Hi Paige

Sounds like you are in for a new left trailing arm.

To do the replacement, the mechanic needs to drop the whole subframe. Its not a big job if you have done it before. A couple of hours. Best that you replace the trailing arm bushings and sub-frame bushings on both sides while you have it all out.

The last time I did the job the bushings costs where:
- NZ$80 for 2 sets of trailing arm bushings.
- US$35 each for the sub-frame bushings. Yes I get my parts from a mix of places locally and internationally.

Some People go and fit poly Sub-frame bushings. I have these on my 3.0L Z3 because the rear sub-frame failure problem affects the larger sized motor Z3 more. I fitted rubber sub-frame bushings to my 2.0L Z3 (low risk of sub-frame failure) and I like the ride more than the 3.0L Z3. Its softer and smoother.

Like when you did your diff rebuild. Put the last 7 digit of your VIN number into the search tool at www.RealOEM.com and search for the part numbers for the left trailing arm and the half shaft for your car. You may need your build spec (decode) again to see what diff option you have. This impacts on the haft shaft as you will likely see notes about a 25% diff option.

If you are buying a new trailing arm, then you don't need the half shaft part number. The mechanic will fit your existing half shaft into the trailing arm. This may require a new wheel bearing and seals.

If you are buying a second hand trailing arm, then knowing the half shaft part number will be useful. Most second hand trailing arms come with a half shaft fitted. There are several different half shafts that go with your trailing arm to allow for different engine sizes and differential sizes. If the parts supplier can tell you what car the trailing arm came off, or the half shaft part number, then you'll know if you/mechanic needs to change the half shaft or not.

Hope this is making sense.

Murray

 

[PaigeZ3]

Hi Paige

Sounds like you are in for a new left trailing arm.

To do the replacement, the mechanic needs to drop the whole subframe. Its not a big job if you have done it before. A couple of hours. Best that you replace the trailing arm bushings and sub-frame bushings on both sides while you have it all out.

The last time I did the job the bushings costs where:
- NZ$80 for 2 sets of trailing arm bushings.
- US$35 each for the sub-frame bushings. Yes I get my parts from a mix of places locally and internationally.

Some People go and fit poly Sub-frame bushings. I have these on my 3.0L Z3 because the rear sub-frame failure problem affects the larger sized motor Z3 more. I fitted rubber sub-frame bushings to my 2.0L Z3 (low risk of sub-frame failure) and I like the ride more than the 3.0L Z3. Its softer and smoother.

Like when you did your diff rebuild. Put the last 7 digit of your VIN number into the search tool at www.RealOEM.com and search for the part numbers for the left trailing arm and the half shaft for your car. You may need your build spec (decode) again to see what diff option you have. This impacts on the haft shaft as you will likely see notes about a 25% diff option.

If you are buying a new trailing arm, then you don't need the half shaft part number. The mechanic will fit your existing half shaft into the trailing arm. This may require a new wheel bearing and seals.

If you are buying a second hand trailing arm, then knowing the half shaft part number will be useful. Most second hand trailing arms come with a half shaft fitted. There are several different half shafts that go with your trailing arm to allow for different engine sizes and differential sizes. If the parts supplier can tell you what car the trailing arm came off, or the half shaft part number, then you'll know if you/mechanic needs to change the half shaft or not.

Hope this is making sense.

Murray

Hi Murray, thank you so much again. Sounds like big job to me
Also I tried to find the part number for the left trailing arm, but couldn't find anything on the side you provided

 

[NZ00Z3]

Hi Paige

The part number for a trailing arm for My 2000 2.0L Z3 is 33321094761. It should be the same for your 1999 2.0L Z3. See this link https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CL32-EUR-04-2000-Z3-BMW-Z3_20&diagId=33_0998

Regards

Murray

 

[Lee]

Hi guys, just a little thing to add, you don’t need to drop the subframe to change the arms, there is sufficient access to undo the arm bolts and even torque them up after. This is a method we use in the UK if the exhaust can’t be touched.

Also worth noting the arms from 2.0-3.0 are the same.

Really good info here I came to the same conclusion as you guys.

 

[Nodzed]

OK if we are talking Toe not camber then;
Bushes are knackered
Car has had a belt on the suspension or chassis at some point (bent something)
both of the above.

Whichever way you look at it the hub is out of alignment by a considerable amount.