DAB Aerial help...

l3ggy

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The M44 Massive
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OK so spent a little time removing old stereo and starting to fit new one.

What is the best (easiest??!!!) way to run the cable for the DAB aerial. Ideally putting the aerial on the passenger side of the windscreen.

I imagine that passed through the a-pillar, down past the glovebox and up that way some how.

Way too wet to start removing bits lol
 

GazHyde

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Not really sure what a DAB aerial consists of, but happy to give the thread another bump... Perhaps @zedonist has some ideas...
 

l3ggy

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The M44 Massive
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The dab aerial connects from the car stereo and should be ideally then attached to windscreen, bottom left of passenger side. Trying to see if there's an easy option for passing the cable through........
 

5harp3y

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If bottom of the screen then just pass up the edge of the dash.

If higher up then remove the a piller
 

l3ggy

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If bottom of the screen then just pass up the edge of the dash.

If higher up then remove the a piller
Yeah think top of dashboard, bottom edge of windscreen. Just need a dry day to get it installed! :whistle:
 

Redline

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Nuneaton
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E89 20i msport
I know in a Z3 the difference isn't great, but the higher you aerial the better.
DAB transmissions in the UK I recall are cross polarised for the main transmitters. Having the antenna either vertically or horizontally wouldn't make much difference if you're pointing at the transmitter, but, there is a but...

In terms of positioning, having the aerial vertically in theory should provide better more consistent reception in a car. You antenna will always have a decent vertical and/or hoiztontal component irrespective which way you car is pointing. If you put it horizontally, when you are at 90degrees to the transmitter you're presenting very little of the antenna to receive a signal. As DAB is very sensitive to receive levels, I would have thought that a vertically placed aerial is much better than an hoiztontal one with less chance of loosing signal.
The way DAB works is there is a great deal of error detection and correction built into the transmissions. This effectively have a signal or you don't. You don't get fading as you do on FM and AM. I suspect you will get far more dropouts on DAB, especially if you listen to stations on local DAB multiplexes with a horizontal aerial. BBC National services and others like Planet Rock and TalkSport on Digital One you should expect slightly better service due to the higher transmission powers and greater interlocking of transmitter areas.

Something else to note is that many stations that broadcast in stereo on FM only broadcast in mono on DAB. Counter intuitive I know but it's true. I suspect as some stations abandon FM in coming years it will free costs to pay for them to pay higher DAB transmission rates for Stereo.

Where do you live and usually listen to your car radio? I'll take a look at which DAB services are available and if they are stereo there when I get back into work next week.
 
Z

zedonist

Guest
I know in a Z3 the difference isn't great, but the higher you aerial the better.
DAB transmissions in the UK I recall are cross polarised for the main transmitters. Having the antenna either vertically or horizontally wouldn't make much difference if you're pointing at the transmitter, but, there is a but...

In terms of positioning, having the aerial vertically in theory should provide better more consistent reception in a car. You antenna will always have a decent vertical and/or hoiztontal component irrespective which way you car is pointing. If you put it horizontally, when you are at 90degrees to the transmitter you're presenting very little of the antenna to receive a signal. As DAB is very sensitive to receive levels, I would have thought that a vertically placed aerial is much better than an hoiztontal one with less chance of loosing signal.
The way DAB works is there is a great deal of error detection and correction built into the transmissions. This effectively have a signal or you don't. You don't get fading as you do on FM and AM. I suspect you will get far more dropouts on DAB, especially if you listen to stations on local DAB multiplexes with a horizontal aerial. BBC National services and others like Planet Rock and TalkSport on Digital One you should expect slightly better service due to the higher transmission powers and greater interlocking of transmitter areas.

Something else to note is that many stations that broadcast in stereo on FM only broadcast in mono on DAB. Counter intuitive I know but it's true. I suspect as some stations abandon FM in coming years it will free costs to pay for them to pay higher DAB transmission rates for Stereo.

Where do you live and usually listen to your car radio? I'll take a look at which DAB services are available and if they are stereo there when I get back into work next week.
Great response, what are thoughts on the future of DAB especially with the automotive industry pushing hard on mobile internet?
 

Redline

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Great response, what are thoughts on the future of DAB especially with the automotive industry pushing hard on mobile internet?
60% of new cars now have dab. That's a simple fact. Looking at DAB and then mobile internet (provided by mobile phone service providers) the possibilities become mind boggling.

The issue with mobile internet services is that someone has to pay the data costs. My wife's E89 has it installed (and paid for life in the car purchase) but in reality, it doesn't get used much. The best bit is to download satnav details from your phone before you leave home.
However, the manufacturers (and dealers) typically get more from it than the car owner. They get all the diagnostics and usage information. They learn what's going on in near real time. They could call you about a problem long before you know it yourself.
Am sure more innovative ways will be found to use mobile internet and data. Cars will automatically connect to emergency services via apps in case of an accident etc.

DAB has a much greater data capacity than the data carrier in FM signals (RDS etc) but less than mobile internet. I'm sure that manufacturers could find ways of doing over the air downloads via that rather than mobile data as it would cost less, but, is a one way service. Of course, dealers wouldn't like that though because it means you don't have to visit them and pay exorbitant rates. Coverage of both mobile data and DAB are an issue. Mobile phone companies only provide service where there are revenue paying customers to use it. DAB is the same - it's paid for either the BBC or advertisers on commercial stations. You'll probably only ever get 95-97% population coverage which equates to 85% geographic coverage. Most people rely on the far richer data provided in mobile satnav said rather than those that use RDS based data.
At the moment those kinds of service are bundled in and I think the car manufacturers will realise they are missing a potential revenue stream by giving it all for free as soon as they put mobile internet in your car. At the lower ends of model ranges, I'd expect them to start providing fee paying services and bolt ons.
I think you'll see far wider variety of mobile internet based services across cars.
On third party radios, it's likely data services will be supported by you own mobile phone rather than its own mobile internet or that of the car. 3rd party audio is being squeezed out by integration from the car manufacturers even at the lower end of models.

The worrying thing is the extent to which big brother reaches further into your life as a consequence of integrated automotive mobile internet. Imagine the commercial benefits that provides fuel companies and other Automotive suppliers! It's completely independent of the apps you choose to put on your mobile phone and browser use!
It could work to the motorists benefit. When you get low on fuel, the fuel companies could bid for your next fill up and give you their prices on your dashboard display. All kinds of things become possible.

It's there and possible now. Thankfully the car manufacturers haven't yet opened that hornets nest.
This is way off DAB but interesting.
Stick with a dumb car!!!
 

Jack Ratt

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Redline

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very informative @Redline
Not sure about that - just the ramblings of someone looking for an angle to create a few quid =))
It's the industry I work in so is of interest to me (and probably nobody else ;))

The obvious question I didn't answer was would/could radio be delivered to car audio via mobile internet. Yes it could technically, but someone has to pay for that mobile data airtime. Also there's 20-30 seconds latency on the encoding, distribution and buffering of web based audio. Maybe not a big issue but that creates problems in real-time two way interactive broadcasts, phone-ins etc (not that you should be doing that while driving!). Why bother with the problems it creates if it can be done via broadcast anyway. You're more at risk of service issues on a commercial phone network than a very closely regulated broadcast environment. Could be used as a niche solution for specific applications, but for the wider radio solution - put in a DAB radio.....
Some newer car radios accept streamed services from your phone - that's your airtime/data you're eating into then.
 
Z

zedonist

Guest
Thanks Redline, enjoyed reading that very much, I suppose though my question, to define it more, is do you think tDAB is more a transient technology such as 3D TV, that generates a short term income from the "got to have it now crowd" but in reality long term investment is in Super HD etc, hope that makes sense, but that is how I see DAB at present, I also think that the Internet will become free at some point as it becomes a human right to communicate through the medium...worth a thought...
 

Redline

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Thanks Redline, enjoyed reading that very much, I suppose though my question, to define it more, is do you think tDAB is more a transient technology such as 3D TV, that generates a short term income from the "got to have it now crowd" but in reality long term investment is in Super HD etc, hope that makes sense, but that is how I see DAB at present, I also think that the Internet will become free at some point as it becomes a human right to communicate through the medium...worth a thought...
I'll PM you with some thoughts and information - if anyone else is remotely interested, PM me. People will get bored with me talking technical rubbish about none-Zed stuff.

So, where were we.. Ah yes - DAB aerials.....Back on topic?
 

Low Rider

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My DAB aerial is vertical on the near windscreen
 

Redline

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My DAB aerial is vertical on the near windscreen
I think installers would expect to do it that way - not seen any installation instructions myself though.
 

l3ggy

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The M44 Massive
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I know in a Z3 the difference isn't great, but the higher you aerial the better.
DAB transmissions in the UK I recall are cross polarised for the main transmitters. Having the antenna either vertically or horizontally wouldn't make much difference if you're pointing at the transmitter, but, there is a but...

Where do you live and usually listen to your car radio? I'll take a look at what DAB services are available and if they are stereo there when I get back into work next week.
Thanks for this. Very helpful info. I'm based South Lanarkshire, covering Strathaven, East Kilbride and travelling in and out of Glasgow. Stations are likely to be Talksport, Capital, Radio 1, Radio 1 xtra, and I suppose whatever I can find that makes me and the car dance :joyful:
 

Redline

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Thanks for this. Very helpful info. I'm based South Lanarkshire, covering Strathaven, East Kilbride and travelling in and out of Glasgow. Stations are likely to be Talksport, Capital, Radio 1, Radio 1 xtra, and I suppose whatever I can find that makes me and the car dance :joyful:
I will take a look see what's happening around there on Monday. I know the BBC DAB transmitter at Blackhill which covers both Glasgow and Edinburgh is being replaced in the next few weeks. There are also new DAB Transmitters being installed somewhere in central Glasgow to cover areas not currently reached by Blackhill. There may be some others further out too.
 

l3ggy

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The M44 Massive
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I will take a look see what's happening around there on Monday. I know the BBC DAB transmitter at Blackhill which covers both Glasgow and Edinburgh is being replaced in the next few weeks. There are also new DAB Transmitters being installed somewhere in central Glasgow to cover areas not currently reached by Blackhill. There may be some others further out too.
Perfect mate. Hoping for dry weather on Tuesday so I can install aerial, remove door cards and lubricant windows, fit new seat bushes and some repairs to roof seals........loving new toy ownership
 

Redline

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Nuneaton
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E89 20i msport
Perfect mate. Hoping for dry weather on Tuesday so I can install aerial, remove door cards and lubricant windows, fit new seat bushes and some repairs to roof seals........loving new toy ownership
Sounds like you've got the bug well and good! Hope it stays fit for you.
 
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